ABOUT CHINA,
ABOUT WOMEN,
ABOUT MADRID:
INTERVIEW
WITH XIROU XIAO
[Interviewer]
Chunzi Wu
Leo L
[Proofreader]
Susy Ye
Janelle Siu
01 FEB 2021
Chunzi Wu
Leo L
[Proofreader]
Susy Ye
Janelle Siu
01 FEB 2021
Portrait of Xirou Xiao
So far we have performed four live actions: the first time was in the opening ceremony of an exhibition; there were many audiences at that time, more or less one hundred and about ten percent of them were Chinese; the second time was in the “Wǒmen, wǒmen” Chinese diaspora program, the proportion of Western and Eastern audiences were half and half; the third performance was given in the Puerta del Sol where an Anti-Racism festival took place, in that context, our audience was quite multicultural among whom Chinese was about 10%; the Chinese spectators were about 5% in our performance which happened not long ago.
Well, no matter for the Spanish or Chinese audience, our Crab Project is quite original. About the reception, the feedback we have received so far is quite positive, many people think that our project is rather attractive and would like to know more about our histories and even personal lives. Either our project’s profile or the artistic expressions can be considered quite tempting.
Before coming to Spain, I had never thought about my cultural identity. I wasn’t quite mature by that time. I used to ponder how to return to my own traditions or in other words, how to prove I am a real Chinese by satisfying this unreal oriental fantasy of the people. This was the first phase, I also call it the “initial language forming phase” because after all, I had to adapt to the local linguistic context when I first arrived. Later, when I became more mature, my attitude tremendously changed realizing that all those Chinese identity or culture is something that others expect from me, but not what I really want. So, because of that kind of expectation from the major Western audience, the common impression about Chinese culture is related to traditional art such as calligraphy, dance, and so on. Precisely due to this sort of “stereotype” towards the Chinese artistic community, I'm therefore willing to apply performance art to convey a sense of diversity and contemporaneity.
Not really, personally I think it depends on your profile as well. The point that attracts every institution can be different. For example, the trend in Matadero inclines to activism (left-wing political), and they care about the themes related to minority, gender, sexuality, and so on. The point that tempts Centro Dos de Mayo or Reina Sofia can be another. So, the key is how your “personal profile” matches with the institutions' requirements. I just think that I'm quite lucky and my profile is as unique and specific as to let my work be somehow outstanding. Generally speaking, official recognition is still highly valued in Madrid. Which museums have your work collected and which institutions have invited you matter a lot. Besides, there is more competition instead of cooperation amongst the local institutions. For example, if Thyssen has collaborated with me, Prado would feel the urge to do something similar, which is definitely beneficial to me because I get work to do. But in general, I'm not optimistic about the art industry. In fact, most minority artists can't get enough opportunities. Even artists like me, who “dominate” some resources of the cultural and artistic institutions, should still be considered as “non-mainstream” ones in the mainstream. This is what many contemporary cultural theories call “marginality”: actually, I also find my profile a “marginality in the mainstream” in the context of the local cultural system. Just like I said in another interview, “minority artists are like substitutes on the playing field.”
From my personal experiences and communication with some artists, I think this has something to do with the kind of party that governs, left-wing or right-wing. This kind of political influence on the cultural industry could be obvious, although the public cultural environment characterized by certain “political currents” would not be healthy from the perspective of its long-term development, and people should be alert of that. I was fortunate to be able to introduce myself to the local artistic circuit when the Podemos party (ultra-left) governed the Community of Madrid and Carmena was the mayor, who highlighted “the participation of the public in culture and art” and financed a lot of projects launched by the immigrant community. The overall social climate in Spain, except those of extreme right, most tend to focus on diversity, especially in the field of art. As Chinese, we even have more possibilities. Even when the right-wing party like PP （Partido Popular）governs, many authorities are still quite curious about Chinese related things, thanks to the growth of the Chinese influence on the world economy. For sure the overall environment will be better if the leftists are in power, but the rightists are still interested in the work we are doing. This particularity of the Chinese community in Madrid is rather interesting.
Not all foreign artistic communities can draw such attention in Spain. It depends on which party is in power. For example, Latin or African artists may not meet the local authorities’ interests (since they know this community relatively well), but Asian, especially Chinese artists do. And most of my Spanish friends who are also artists are in a quite desperate status, they don't see their future because of the lack of resources. Moreover, the art market in Madrid shrank sharply after the financial crisis, and that makes many artists fail to make a living from their artwork, despite their races; People simply don’t find the art market compelling here, under such circumstances, it's very fortunate to live off art, personally, I’m doing rather good (at least with project funding). So, if your art profile does not match with the institutions' or market´s requirements, it is very difficult to get sponsorships, investments or the so-called “social recognition”, and many times these profiles are associated with social topics, such as immigration, feminism, environmental protection, technology and so on.
I‘m constantly asking myself, to what extent I want to "take advantage of" my Chinese female identity. Receiving so many invitations at first, I was kind of satisfied. Moreover, it's easy for me to "feel good about myself". Then little by little I start to ask what is the real purpose of these collaborations. Before every invitation, now I will ask "why and for what do you want to cooperate with the Chinese community and with me?". Through responses to such basic questions, I will consider whether it is worth working with them and think about how I can improve my work. It's another process of situated practice. As a case in point, a young stage artist once responded, "I hope there would be Chinese and black people in the third part of my work, because they do not appear in the previous two parts..." For invitations like this we have no interest; Another possibility is that the institutions themselves may not be aware of what "the Chinese community" is about. In this case, I will decide, with the time and money permitted, whether I am willing to do "compulsory pedagogy" (sometimes I guide them more patiently, sometimes I express my opinion directly) and to what extent, so that they could clarify their true intentions. In my experience, these institutions tend to prioritize their own "interests". From a "business model" perspective, it is understandable that these cultural institutions want to get a "maximum benefit", but the problem is precisely that these centers would like their projects and actions to obtain universal value by using "politically right" terms. "But will this exert a real influence on the" Chinese community?" In many cases, the projects that they launch are nothing more than" pretended interest "and" frivolous action "to beautify their own political image. As an example, a renowned local art museum asked me twice to be an intercultural mediator, expecting that I could bring more Chinese visitors to the museum. Last year I organized a group of some 20 people to visit the space, but the process and content turned out to be very unsatisfactory. They didn´t design specific content and make corresponding changes for this group, nor did they care about its true visiting experience, but simply assume that the participation of Chinese minorities would be rather great. This year they found me again, but then I put forward my opinion, hoping to design with their staff suitable content for the Chinese visitors instead of using directly the existing model. Of course, the cost of designing such a program will be more.
This might have something to do with my personal way of perceiving the world and positioning myself. How do I position myself? Do I do it all alone, or by observing the outside world? For me, this is more of a mutual nurturing thing. For example, by receiving information from the external world, I react, while my reaction could even change the outside world, thus I receive and give output again. My current creation is highly related to the social context and the environment that surrounds me (time, space, cross-cultural context, etc.), in other words, it has this nature in situ. Therefore, it would be invalid if I “copy” what I am doing in Spain and “paste” it directly into Chinese society. To remove this “incompatible” feeling so that the Western experience could serve the Chinese context, I would need to reposition myself. I tend to stay sensitive, curious, and also alert to the social environment and the scenario. I don’t want to be a “highbrow” artist. I tend to think about how the social mechanism works, what I want to create in this society, and even if my creation could change the outside world or bring something new.
For example, to me, feminism itself is a Western concept. It is not allowed in China like any other political movements. All the members of our project have been talking about our insecurity and hesitancy about this concept of “Western feminism.” Currently we all agree that the Crab Project is not a feminist group, but a female group, or more especifically, a “creative” group of collective performance. In the contemporary Western context, way too easily we might be misled by the mainstream “sensational”speech, and lose our independent thinking. Not knowing where one's true interest lies or focusing too much on what most people say, being extremely politically appropriate yet not sincere, one can easily be misled, because for me, the argument of the activists is usually compelling and exciting, or even “eloquent” and “sensational”, giving the majority of the public “an illusion of power and freedom”. Without independent and critical thinking, it is easy to fade into emptiness. So, for example, the political demands that we are making in “Liwai”, far from being just ideological, are implemented from a more practical perspective: the work we do is of “first necessity”, such as accompaniment for Chinese families in need, free service for women suffering from gender violence, intercultural mediation in schools and hospitals, free conferences and courses, etc.
The first sentence is a reflection about my identity since our first act in 2018: What does it mean to be a young Chinese woman in Spain? No one will ask me which country I'm from before coming abroad. These repeated questions from the outside world made me think: Well, I am Chinese, but what does this mean? And I also threw my personal doubts into the community. The collective may share this identity, but everyone's perception will be different. After our first act, we started to discuss whether it is necessary to keep talking about the Chinese women identity, so we had debate and also dialogues: Some people think it's necessary because this is our characteristic; others say there is no need to emphasize it now that we already look like this. Such positioning will even hinder the communication with other communities. It also troubled me for a long time. I would think about whether we should use it or not. And then at another stage (2019), I found out that I had fallen into this trap of duality. But in fact, there is no need to place one over another. We are always in the process of transformation and exploration. So when I pulled myself out, I no longer took it as a problem but something full of possibilities. What does it mean to be and not to be? What does it mean to use and get rid of this identity? The idea of “middle zone”, which is mentioned frequently by the famous curator Hou Hanru, can reflect the location range where our project is situated. There is no need to feel obliged to take this or remove that, but to make both of them stand at the same time, and to think about how we could play better these concepts. This kind of “initiative” can be considered as the premise and the key to our actions.